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Conversation about baling with ground-driven carts from Draft Animal Power Network Facebook

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Draft Animal Power Network on Facebook

Rich DuMond 4 hrs Does anyone on here have any experience/knowledge with baling hay with an I&J ground driven PTO forecart? (or any other ground driven PTO forecart for that matter). I'm not familiar with how much HP it generates, and how many RPM's small square balers require. Like · · Share

Scott Mack Only experience I have is research but I&J carts produce 350-540rpm which should run a baler in light hay. Have been told heavy hay would stall the baler and slide the wheels on the cart 4 hrs · Like · 1

Scott Mack Our small 24t JD baler gets run at about 350rpm otherwise in sounds like its gonne come apart and works fine at that speed 4 hrs · Like

Jason MacNaughton Good info here, almost all old square balers were designed for 540 pto. Most I have ever been around always run best a little slower then that. Dris Abraham is on FB, and it's my understanding that he has lots of experience with that design. I am quite interested in the system as well. My info is very based on hear say but I it's my understanding that the performance was adequate in light hay but struggled in heavier stuff. The area I farm in, is most successful with Alfalfa hay. That info turned me from the system. I would sure love to hear as well if someone else knows differently! 3 hrs · Like · 1

Rich DuMond Very good info. Thanks. I am considering getting a few beef cows but before I do that I need to get into making hay so that I'm not spending everything I've got just to keep the cows alive during winters like this one. I've got a small John Deere 4300 (32 hp diesel with around 23 hp at the rear PTO) but I'm not sure if that's going to be able to get the job done consistently. I've also got 4 draft horses.

So in that respect, I have to make a decision on the source of the power for baling (and maybe raking, though I could pick up an old working bunch rake pretty cheap if need be).

The other side of it is I could buy a baler with a motor on it, except that my neighbor offered me the use of his old Massey Ferguson square baler that he no longer uses, so I could save the expense of a baler if I use that, but I need PTO power. Perhaps my tractor would provide nearly as much ability as a PTO forecart? I prefer working horses, but it might get me through a year or so until I have $4,400 to spend on a PTO forecart.

Just trying to kick some ideas around until a good one sticks. 3 hrs · Like · 1

Scott Mack Small tractor on reasonably level ground will handle a baler if yer not in a hurry but you'd have to drop the bales on the ground 3 hrs · Like · 2

Rich DuMond Right. That's what I was thinking. I will probably use that to get through this year. I like the idea of having a PTO cart though. 3 hrs · Like

Scott Mack Build one out of an old tractor rear end that had non live pto. Thats my plan someday. 3 hrs · Like · 1

Donn Hewes Hi Folks, great conversation. I built a ground drive PTO cart out of a case tractor a couple years ago, and we pulled it at the 2013 FD with a baler. With three horses. Neal Perry has also built one with a AC WD 45 (or some such) it also worked. I have seen both the I & J light weight cart and heavy weight carts work at HPD and other places. Now here is my opinion: I built my cart specifically to ted hay and it works great. I can ted as much hay as two teams can mow in just a couple hours. I bale with a motorized PTO cart and four horses. Since I don't want to bale on the ground (stongly don't want to do that!) I think it will take a minimum of six and more likely eight to make a good ground drive PTO baler with wagon that won't plug and cause other problems. That is my two cents. I think it is a great goal; I just doubt I will ever keep the extra horses needed. D 3 hrs · Like · 2

Rich DuMond Thanks Donn. So in my case would you recommend baling on the ground with my 32 hp JD to get started, or would you, money provided, suggest getting a motorized PTO cart? From what I gather, you're saying, a 1500 lb I&J ground drive PTO cart would require baling on the ground with 4, or into a wagon with 6-8? 2 hrs · Like

Donn Hewes Hi Rich, Of course these are just my experiences and thoughts. I have baled for years (about 2500 to 3000 per year) with four head (horses and mules) pulling a motorized cart, baler and flat wagon. I like this system and It has worked well for me. It requires one extra person on the wagon stacking bales. With a small tractor I would still try to pull the wagon if i can. That might require 45 or 50 hp. I am farming mostly flat ground or slightly slopes; or across side hills. For me four horses minimum to pull a Ground drive baler or cart and baler; and at that point you are still baling on the ground. six or eight to pull a ground drive baler and a wagon. Just as an example, If I was working six horses this summer I still would use the gas powered cart and use the two extra horses (and extra people!) to unload wagons while I was filling them. Of course all these things depend on how many bales, how far to the barn, who will unload, etc, etc. I love making hay, but sometimes my wife says it is hard to tell I love it while I am doing it! D 2 hrs · Like · 1

Rich DuMond Also - Donn,... Very cool. I came across this http://farmhack.net/.../ground-driven-pto-forecart... ... how long did it take you to put this cart together? Do you have any idea of the output (RPM's/Power) on that PTO?

Ground-Driven PTO Forecart converted from antique tractor | Farm Hack FarmHack.netTool and Forum sections conceived by... FARMHACK.NET 2 hrs · Like · 1 · Remove Preview

Rich DuMond Very good info. Thanks! 2 hrs · Like

Donn Hewes It was really simple to build. Take the tractor apart! and with a little farm welding build a frame that will hold the seat and attach a pole (or two). This cart was modified slightly to have the seat frame extended out the back and a wheel weight was bolted on. This made it almost perfectly balanced. For anyone considering making a home made one, don't be afraid to make it nearly weightless at the tongue end because when you engage it, that will push down on the tongue. As far as PTO speed, this cart works with a different PTO speed in each of four gears, so I have four speeds to choose from. Usually second or third looks right. 11 mins · Like

Daniel Grover Hey Donn Hewes, I realized that we don't have any photos of the completed PTO cart up on Farm Hack. Do you have some readily available? 3 mins · Edited · Like Daniel Grover

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